This episode features an interview with Jason Horsley, host of the Warty Theorems podcast, leader of the Stormy Weather Existential Detective Agency (SWEDA), and proponent of paranoid awareness. Jason and I discuss whether the Universe needs us to create social change, whether or not we can shut down the factory or tear down the wall, the story of Osho Rajneesh, John De Ruiter, and what it means to surrender. A segment from this podcast was posted as a youtube video called "A Conversation about Gurus." Chris "Isto" White is back with a song entitled "The Incredible Shrinking Isto," and I read from Larry Law's chapbook "Revolutionary Self Theory." Also there is a factoid about cold water and the Titanic from Miriam.